Like in the cases of aluminum foil, aspirin, tissues, or Tupperware for snacks, Netflix has achieved the rare and exclusive privilege of metonymy. The brand has appropriated the product, and sitting in front of any streaming television is already, to the despair of the competition, watching Netflix (we haven't reached "netflixing" yet, but we have clear imitators like Flixolé). Ted Sarandos (Long Branch, New Jersey, 1964), visiting Spain, seems to be aware that in just over a quarter of a century (exactly 27 years), he has gone from being an outsider to the head of the establishment of an industry dedicated to the euphoric pleasure of permanent crisis. The current co-CEO of the capital N company started by distributing DVDs in red envelopes (the equivalent of folding shirts) and today is the voice of the platform, for better or for worse, on everyone's lips with 700 million viewers spread across 190 countries. For some, he is the devil (thinkers like the German Byung Chul Han point to series and their bulimic consumption as the symptom of all modern apocalypses); for others, he is the democratizing and global savior, and for the rest - the most phlegmatic - the place of Stranger Things, Squid Game, or Money Heist.
The Mogul, as it used to be called, visited Madrid last week on the occasion of the tenth anniversary of the metonymy in Spanish.
It was 10 years ago when Netflix established itself in Spain and six years since it opened its studios in the town of Tres Cantos, Madrid.
Now, according to the company's own figures, the whole world consumes over 5 billion hours of Netflix content created directly from all over the Spanish geography. Shortly before announcing an investment of 1 billion in Spain until 2028, Sarandos reviewed with EL MUNDO the new challenges of the company, its old conflict with Cannes, the scare experienced with the stock market crash of 2022, the obsession with winning an Oscar, the episode with Karla Sofía Gascón, the future of movie theaters, and even his debut as an actor in the series The Studio that can be seen on... Apple TV+, just by turning on Netflix. And it's not confusion, but metonymy.
The last time I saw him was at The Studio...
That means the last time he saw me was in the men's bathroom [the scene takes place there].
How should we understand his debut as an actor on a competitor's network?
Simply put, Seth Rogen is a good friend. He sent me the script and told me that if I found it funny and could fit it into my schedule, to go for it. So, in the end, I took three or four hours to shoot that scene with him. The episode was fun, the joke was good, and I hope my performance lived up to it.
He visits Spain because Netflix has spent ten years in Spain. What role does Spain play in the company's global vision compared to other European countries?
Spain is fundamental in Netflix's narrative culture worldwide. From Las chicas del cable, our first Spanish series, we have come a long way. La casa de papel was a clear example of the cultural impact Netflix can have when it bets on good stories, no matter where they come from. It reached a huge number of viewers and also boosted tourism in Spain. It made many people start to see the country as an attractive destination for international shoots. I think it was one of the reasons that encouraged investing in the international audiovisual production center in Tres Cantos, which has been very successful in attracting both national and international shoots. Today, Spain leads production in Europe, second only to the UK. And it all started with the need to prove that it was possible. I believe that Netflix and La casa de papel were precisely that.
He doesn't call it Money Heist, its international title.
For me, it's La casa de papel. I'm a bit of a purist about that.
I'll ask you the previous question in reverse. And what has Netflix brought to Spain?
We have filmed original productions in all autonomous communities; in 200 cities and towns. We have invested a huge amount of resources in the country because I believe Spain offers a very favorable environment for investment. The government has managed to find the perfect balance between incentives and attractive working conditions to attract shoots, and also understands very well complicated aspects of international production, such as passport control and other logistical issues. All these factors have been taken into account, making Spain one of the best places to work. I find it incredible the effect these productions have had on local tourism. It has even become clear that if you are a storyteller and do not live in Madrid, you no longer have to move to work. You can tell your story from your region. All of this has contributed to making Spain such a relevant part of our journey. A great example is Élite, which is now in its eighth season. It is the longest-running international series we have produced. So, we are very proud of the work and what it represents for our own history.
If I mention the name Karla Sofía Gascón, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Have you forgiven her?
I think we must be magnanimous. We all make mistakes, sometimes because of what we feel and other times because we do not know how to choose the right moment. We must look at things with a certain perspective. And yes, of course, we have forgiven. There is no resentment.
Has Netflix changed its policy regarding the use of social media by its employees since the Karla case?
No, we do not have any strategy in that regard. The only thing to ensure is that if you are going to appear in headlines during the awards season, it should be for your performance. That would be a good strategy.
Do you think Hollywood was unfair to Karla and Emilia Pérez?
Being the most nominated film was a historic achievement. But this is a very volatile industry. Nominations usually reward the work, but awards sometimes reflect the mood of the sector at that time. It is difficult to predict. The only thing you can do is give your best. The work must be unquestionable.
And do you think Netflix was a bit unfair to Karla by not allowing her to attend certain events or speak at them?
Nothing was prohibited to her. We supported the film a lot and we supported Karla a lot. I found her performance extraordinary. It is undoubtedly a moment that will go down in Oscar history.
Since we are talking about the Oscars, let's talk about Netflix's desire, perhaps obsession, to win the Best Picture award that has yet to come.
I don't know where that comes from. Would we like to win the Oscar for Best Picture? Of course; but I don't understand why it is presented as something exclusive to Netflix. Any company that produces films and submits them to the Oscars would want to win. We want the creators to win. And I think of Jane Campion or Wes Anderson... The only Oscar Wes has won was for a Netflix film. The nominations of the Coen brothers or Martin Scorsese show that our journey is quite solid. Also with David Fincher. Some of the best directors in the world have created works with us that were recognized with nominations. I would love to see them all win, of course. Not to mention Roma, by Alfonso Cuarón.
What is your assessment of the films produced by Netflix since Beasts of No Nation, by Cary Fukunaga, in 2015?
We have been producing original films for six years. And when you stop to think about who is behind them, you discover, for example, that Mank is perhaps David Fincher's most impressive film. I am convinced of that. The Irishman, by Martin Scorsese, is on par with his best works. What Scorsese has done in this film regarding mafia cinema is, in a way, equivalent to what Clint Eastwood did with Unforgiven in the western genre. It all responds to a very clear commitment: taking risks with top-level creators and giving them the resources they need to do the best work of their careers. I am still surprised that Scorsese spent 15 years trying to get The Irishman off the ground and couldn't find funding to make it. And now, in November, we are releasing Frankenstein, by Guillermo del Toro, for the same reason. What else does Del Toro have to prove to be allowed to make a monster movie? He had been trying to make it for 13 years. All the studios rejected it. And again, I think he is going to redefine the genre. When I look back and review all these films, I believe the work speaks for itself.
I wonder what kind of cinephile Ted Sarandos is. What films did he grow up with? What kind of films does he aspire to produce? Today we see in Hollywood this increasingly marked contrast between big blockbusters and smaller independent films.
There is a gap in the market for a certain type of intermediate films. I think of character-driven dramas, like those made in the 70s, which were very popular and performed well at the box office. Also the other way around: there were commercial films that won the Oscar, like Rocky, for example. Many people forget that Rocky was an Academy Award-winning film. I want us to make films that people want to watch over and over again, that are talked about, that you want to watch again, that accompany you. Films that define the career of those who have made them. For me, that is the goal.
And what films did you grow up with?
I grew up in Phoenix (Arizona) and at that time it was a small city. Now it is quite large. We had multiplex cinemas where the most commercial films were shown. If you wanted to see something outside the mainstream, like a documentary or a film in another language, there was only one cinema about 45 minutes by bus from my house. I made that trip many times. I studied journalism, and although I knew about cinema from other countries, I did not have access to it. I remember going two nights in a row to see Shoah, Claude Lanzmann's nine-hour documentary. It was two trips there and two back on the bus; four in total. Because of the schedule, I arrived just in time, and I had to sit in the front row. Imagine how my neck felt after four and a half hours [laughs] watching a subtitled documentary about the Holocaust. I was eager to watch movies and had very few options, but in general, I watched commercial cinema, whether at drive-ins or multiplexes. I remember watching After Hours by Scorsese and thinking, "This is not just a big TV, this is art." As a child, I watched all kinds of movies. I remember that the summer it premiered, I went with my friends to the cinema to see Airplane!... 32 times!
He has been at the helm of Netflix for a quarter of a century, what would you say have been the key moments? I think of the stock market crash in 2022, for example.
That was horrible. I would say there have been two decisive moments: the creation of Qwikster [the company that took over physical rentals when the streaming company was launched] and the 2022 stock market crash mentioned. What they have in common is that there was no real interruption in the business. The plan or business model did not change. Nothing happened the day before to justify what happened. We have always seen the evolution of Netflix as a long-term journey. And those bumps come and go. When you are young, you think everything always goes up. But when you look back, you see there are ups and downs. And with perspective, you realize that in the low moments is where you learn the most. So now I see it from that point of view: what did we learn about ourselves? That we know how to endure, adapt, move fast, convey confidence both inside and outside the company. The long-term course remains intact. What changed was the narrative, not the business. Having perspective and perseverance is essential. And for that, you have to go through good and bad times.
Listening to you, the documentary about Carlos Alcaraz that Netflix airs comes to mind. There is a chapter titled Enjoying Suffering. Do you share that idea?
I am not in favor of romanticizing suffering. I believe it is part of the human experience, and it depends on you to take something positive from it. You can let it be solely negative, but you can also draw a lesson from it.
Did you ever fear for the future of the company when, for example, Disney or Warner announced they were launching their own platforms?
In reality, we saw it coming. That's why we started producing our own series and movies. We were clear that if we did well, everyone would want to enter this business... and would stop selling us their content. I believed it would happen even sooner. I thought they would move faster than they did. Something similar happened in our early years when Netflix was just a DVD rental company by mail. Back then, Blockbuster was the most powerful entertainment brand in the world... and it took them four years to put DVDs on their shelves. I'm not even talking about mail subscriptions, just renting DVDs in their stores. Four years. I am still surprised at how slow the big players in the industry can be. Maybe they get too comfortable in their position and stop innovating or taking the competition seriously. For us, it was a lesson: not to make that mistake. So yes, we expected Disney, Warner, and everyone else to eventually enter... but we thought they would do it sooner.
I read an interview in Variety where you talked about the differences between Netflix and Apple or HBO... You even criticized -although with nuances- other platforms.
It was not my intention. I guess it just comes out unintentionally. [laughs]
Repeating the question: What would be the big difference between Netflix and the rest?
I think in this sector, the key is to have something to watch. Many of our competitors have a lack of content issue. We have been able to meet our subscribers' expectations: we offer good movies and series. Sometimes, when they reach the eighth episode and know there are only two left, they are already wondering what to watch next. And we have something good prepared for that moment. We invest early, and when the sector slowed down a bit, we did not stop. Many competitors, in their race for profits, cut their catalogs, and that has harmed them in the long run. We are clear that we must constantly add value. And we hold ourselves to a high standard with that indicator: how are the views and interaction on Netflix going. That is our main difference. It is not enough to have something good twice a year. People watch TV every night. And not to put anyone in a bad light, as I said, but I wondered what the difference is, and that is it.
Another recurring question is about the crisis of movie theaters. I remember when I interviewed Christopher Nolan a few years ago, he was very outspoken about it and very critical of platforms in general and Netflix in particular...
I love going to the movies. And I am lucky: I live in Los Angeles, where it is very easy to go to a theater. If you live in a big city, you can do it without a problem. But if not, it is complicated. It is expensive, impractical, and people have many other options. So, if you enjoy going to the movies, great. It is hard to beat a movie on a Friday night. But for many people, that is hard to achieve. What I am most proud of about Netflix is having created a model that ensures that movies continue to be made... and that people can watch them. This is a statistic taken only from the United States, but only 4% of the population goes to the movies every week. In the 1940s, it was 70%. The difference is huge. People have many more options now. The good news is that many movies are still being watched. Over 700 million people worldwide - in more than 300 million Netflix-subscribed households - watch an average of seven movies per month. That is great. In a world where you can watch whatever you want on any screen, the fact that seven movies are being watched per month says a lot about what we have contributed to the health of feature films.
Can you imagine producing a movie by Christopher Nolan in the future? That would indeed be a turning point.
I am glad that people go to the movies and that theaters still exist. But it is not our business. We make movies to offer them to our subscribers on Netflix. Some are also released in theaters as part of our release strategy. We actively participate in film festivals worldwide. But honestly, I care less about how and where people watch movies than the fact that they watch them and are excited about them.
How would you define your relationship with Cannes?
Very good. Simply, we cannot take our movies there if they cannot compete. So we go to Venice. But, yes, I love Cannes. I have a very good relationship with Thierry Frémaux [the director]; but rules are rules. When the required deadlines change [the time that must elapse between the theatrical release and exploitation on platforms], we will return.
Let's talk a bit about the algorithm. It is a tool for viewers to choose what they want to watch, but it is also more than a tool: it is a concept. Sometimes it seems that all the bad things in society are related to it. It decides what we see, what we do...
I think for those who love movies, or audiovisual content in general, a little help to find something they love is always welcome. It is important because time is limited, and the offer is enormous. I remember when I worked at a video store. I was amazed to see how long people took to choose a movie: 30, 40 minutes, even an hour, reading covers. But, of course, they wanted to choose well. Sometimes because it was their Saturday night plan, and there are not so many Saturdays in life. That need to choose well is still there. What the internet has brought is the possibility to choose from thousands, tens of thousands, or millions of titles, and the technology that helps choose is, for me, the most powerful part. Because the content has been reaching TVs for a long time, but now you can choose. As I usually say: the only thing worse than a list of a hundred movies is one with a thousand. But if someone helps me find something I really like, I appreciate it. However: do not hide things from me because you think I won't like them. We don't do that: what's new on Netflix, the Top 10... it's all there. You can find what you want.
But you can't deny that the algorithm is the perfect excuse to avoid risky content, leaving only the most conventional in sight.
No, it is quite the opposite. My tastes, for example, are a bit different from the most popular. And my Netflix list is full of things I like that are not the most conventional. If you only watch that type of content, the system will show you more of the same. But if you stop watching it, it will also stop suggesting it. I think it is a very useful tool for an audience eager to find something good to watch. In the end, everyone is looking for the same thing: better tools to choose. And now another actor has entered the game, not so new, but very relevant: artificial intelligence.
You live in Los Angeles and Netflix's headquarters are located in Los Gatos. How do you judge the deportations of immigrants and the resulting protests happening in California? And another question about politics: How do you assess this kind of cultural war we are experiencing? Do you think it could affect the content of movies? From the Trump administration, we see a daily attack against the very idea of freedom of expression, which is the principle of all creation and of Hollywood.
I don't think I am the most appropriate person to speak about this president or his government, except to point out that storytelling and the art of narrative are undoubtedly a reflection of their time. Just look at how the tone of movies has varied in different political moments throughout history, and I am sure something similar will happen now. In any case, we have not perceived any interference, increase in censorship, or anything similar that I can comment on.
At first, we were talking about the success of series made in Spain, but we could also talk about Korean production or Nigerian dramas or Turkish romantic comedies... How do you think Netflix has rewritten the geography of contemporary production?
The most important thing is that we have created a business model that ensures that movies continue to be made and can continue to be watched. That, in itself, is a reason to celebrate. The 1 billion investment in Spain for the next four years is a demonstration of our continued commitment to the work we do here.