Jaime Bayly is fond of literary pairs. In his previous novel, 'The Geniuses,' he gave life to the complicit relationship first and then stormy between Gabriel García Márquez and Mario Vargas Llosa.
Two years later - now - he delves into an excellent novel about those three days in 2002 when Hugo Chávez was on the brink of political disappearance due to a catastrophic coup d'état. Titled The Coup Plotters (Galaxia Gutenberg), he revisits those three carnival-like days and the tutelary and sly figure of Fidel Castro in the midst of that farcical and sinister parade.
This novel cannot have better spontaneous promotion, but Venezuela is even more of a crossroads than before. How do you interpret what is happening there and where it is heading?
I have good informants. At my age, I no longer have friends, only sources. The Rodriguez brothers, Delcy and Jorge, betrayed Maduro, negotiated with the CIA. Apparently, they now have all the power. But it is not Delcy who governs Venezuela, but Marco Rubio, the viceroy or proconsul of Emperor Trump. Rubio is the one giving orders to Delcy over the phone (they speak every day, in Spanish), and she hurries to obey them because she knows that if she ignores them, she will see Delta Force helicopters. Trump is not interested in liberating the Venezuelans; what he wants is to liberate the oil of that country. Rubio wants free elections, but in two years, not before. So, if Trump and Rubio keep the treacherous Delcy and Jorge Rodriguez in power for two years, then Maria Corina should ask Trump to return the Nobel medal (which she could have auctioned for 100 million euros).
The attempt to remove Chávez from power in Venezuela in 2002 failed in three days. This is the driving force behind 'The Coup Plotters'. What happened?
That is the big question: why did the coup succeed on the first day and fail three days later? Chávez was imprisoned, had resigned, only begged not to be killed, to be sent to Havana. But the coup failed. Why? Because the coup leaders, morbidly obese, were amateurs, improvisers. They only had one idea: capture Chávez, force him to resign, lock him up. Then they were left dumbfounded. They didn't know what the hell to do. In other words, they were improvising. And that's how it went for them. They fought among themselves for tiny power appetites. Fidel Castro called them and threatened to kill them and their families. And a businessman swore himself in as president and made the mistake of humiliating the coup plotters. Even worse, a high military chief, Baduel, refused to join the conspiracy and set out to rescue Chávez. He succeeded.
And how did Chávez thank him?
Later on, he sent him to jail, and he died behind bars.In the novel, it proposes to define what a coup d'état is and what justifies intervening to restore alleged legality.
In the novel, everyone is a coup plotter. Chávez is a coup plotter: he led a coup against a democratic government and was imprisoned for it. It will be said that he came to power elected by the people. That's true. But he quickly became a dictator and undermined democracy. So, when the failed coup of 2002 happened, Chávez was already a dictator, a serial coup plotter. But those who rebelled against him were also damn coup plotters. And those who supported that conspiracy are all coup plotters: the priests, the businessmen, the journalists. What happened in April 2002 is that communist coup plotters, Chávez and his henchmen, were overthrown by right-wing coup plotters, bumbling, foolish, amateur coup plotters. And Chávez and Fidel were professional coup plotters. That's why Chávez, on the third day, returned to power.
Although the title is plural, 'The Coup Plotters', in truth, the narrative is mainly about Hugo Chávez. Who do you think he is most indebted to for ensuring that his regime was firmly established for over two decades?
The main coup plotter in the novel is Chávez, yes. I interviewed him in 1998 when he was a presidential candidate. I invited him to Miami. He wanted to come with his family and then go to Disney in Orlando, but the Americans in Caracas did not give him a visa. They made a serious mistake. They told him, "You are a coup plotter," which he was, "and we will not give you a visa to enter the United States." That's why Chávez harbored a deep grudge against the Americans. I would have given him the visa. Maybe if he had visited Disney with his family and then gone shopping at the malls in Miami, Chávez would have discovered the moral superiority of capitalism over communism. But the Americans were clumsy and threw him into the arms of Fidel Castro. Fidel needed Venezuelan oil. When Fidel saw Chávez, he saw a barrel of oil. That's why he seduced him, trapped him in his web, mentally colonized him.
It doesn't seem like a novel about ideologies, but rather its strength lies in the representation of the greed for power from the perspective of ambition, messianism, the psychological complexity of someone who trained diligently to have it, regardless of beliefs... Is that so?
Exactly. All the coup plotters in the novel, both left-wing and right-wing, are not driven by ideas, much less by ideals. What excites them to seize power is ruthless ambition without scruples, the clumsy eagerness to occupy seats feeling immortal. All the coup plotters failed miserably because they were miserable. In the worst hours of the coup against him, already a prisoner, Chávez thought they would kill him, and they were close to taking his life. At that moment, he no longer wanted to preserve power but life itself. But the coup plotters hesitated. They didn't know whether to execute him or send him to Havana. And that doubt ended up destroying the conspiracy.
The novel leaves in suspense the 'fantasy' that Chávez's regime might not have been what it was.
Agreed. The man who swore himself in as president, Carmona, a businessman, supported by the priests and the businessmen, was also a clumsy coup plotter who improvised a clumsy script. Could democracy have been restored at that moment? I believe so. But those who seized power then, like those who occupy it now, were not in a hurry to lead the country to a legitimate government.
And Fidel Castro is the voice from beyond, a sort of dilettante Delphic oracle. Sometimes a fox, sometimes a delirious one.
Fidel was exactly that: the voice from beyond. When he called the coup plotters and threatened to kill them one by one, the Venezuelan generals felt that a superior chief was speaking to them, that they were subordinate to Fidel. And it's because Fidel was an evil genius, a professional dictator. Fidel deactivated the coup over the phone and saved Chávez's life. He plucked the coup plotters like a fox eats chickens.
How do you rate the entry of the US military force into Venezuela to capture Nicolás Maduro?
Fantastic. Spectacular. The only good thing Trump has done. Maduro had to be captured and brought to justice. And in Venezuela, there is no justice. And the Venezuelans alone could not overthrow him. Trump did well in sending the Delta Force. It's a shame they didn't take Cabello and Padrino too. The good thing is that Cabello and Padrino are terrified. And when you know your enemy is afraid, it's a good start to negotiate with him.
What is your impression of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero's recent visit to Delcy Rodríguez?
Zapatero is a graceless harlequin, a court jester of the Chavista court. He rushed to Caracas because the FBI arrested Maduro's frontmen, Alex Saab and Raúl Gorrín, who know in detail the under-the-table payments Zapatero received for consulting services to Maduro's autocratic regime. Zapatero is afraid that Saab and Gorrín will be extradited to the United States, which will happen, and that they, in the trial against Maduro, which will last at least a year, will testify as privileged witnesses and, in exchange for obtaining penitentiary benefits, sing to justice everything they know about Maduro and his family's corruption; and also sing about all the monetary benefits that Maduro, through Saab, through Gorrín, provided to that insidious enemy of freedom, Zapatero.
Did the White House have to authorize his visit to Delcy Rodríguez in Caracas?
As far as I know, no. Zapatero had commitments with the Chinese those days in Madrid. He did not consult Rubio on whether he should travel to Caracas. He traveled hastily as soon as he learned that the FBI had captured Saab and Gorrín in their mansions.
What role do you think the opposition will play in the new and unusual Venezuela?
Luckily, there will be freedom of the press and the opposition will be able to express themselves without fear. But that remains to be seen. Trump likes to deal with the bad guys. He does not have an ethical agenda in Venezuela or anywhere else. Trump respects those who hold power and exercise it with cruelty. He probably respects Delcy more than María Corina, just because the former is evil and the latter is kind.
After the embarrassing servitude with the awarding of the Nobel Prize to Trump, will Machado have any relevant role or has she fulfilled her 'mission' for now?
She should not have given the Nobel Prize to Trump. She should not have said that Trump deserved the Nobel more than her. Trump does not deserve the Nobel. He is a bully. I fear that María Corina will regret giving him that medal for the rest of her life. And if there are no elections in Venezuela this year or the next, and Trump continues to praise Delcy, María Corina will understand that Trump will not be an ally in the cause of freedom, democracy, and human rights, something that you Europeans know very well.
After two recent novels about duos, doesn't your body crave something about trios?I can already see the trio: Zapatero and the Delcy and Jorge Rodríguez siblings. They are not united by love, but by horror. The horror of Delta Force. And of looking at themselves in the mirror.