What do you think of the position of the Spanish Government regarding Israel?
I came here without any illusions about their position. I know we have many differences between the government of Spain and the government in Israel. Throughout the history of our countries' relations, this is not the first time. It seems to me that we are reaching a very concerning point in public opinion. But I came here knowing the government's positions and understanding that there is still much work to be done. Also, distinguishing between the Government of Spain and the different political parties.
And how is your relationship with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
We are still developing these relationships. I am here to maintain and open more channels of communication with anyone who wants to talk to us. We are here for dialogue.
The day Pedro Sánchez announced the new measures against Israel, on Monday, his Minister of Foreign Affairs responded with a letter. In it, he mentioned the expulsion of Jews in the 15th century. Doesn't that discourse remind you a bit of when Islamists talk about Al-Andalus?
I cannot compare. I can speak about the history of my people. The trauma we have here in Spain, not only us, I see that also the Spaniards. What happened here at that time is not an easy story for any of us. For us, that chapter of history is something we remember and try to learn from to avoid repeating it.
It seems like historical revisionism, talking about an event from six centuries ago with today's eyes. We see situations that the Jewish people have already experienced. Jews had to hide, they said instead of facing violence, let's remove the Jews. Unfortunately, these are rhetoric and comments that we have also seen this year. For example, I was surprised to hear voices in that regard now in the Vuelta [cycling race] in Spain, suggesting that instead of facing violent anti-Israeli protests, it would be better if the Israeli team were not there. If they cannot participate in a race, in an international sporting event, it reminds us of worrying chapters in history.
The Government of Israel has mentioned antisemitism within the Spanish government. Do you believe that everyone who criticizes Israel's military action on Gaza is antisemitic or pro-Hamas?
Thank you for asking, because many times people do not understand and think that in Israel we believe that anyone who criticizes Israel is antisemitic. No, I say it clearly: no. Criticizing Israel, criticizing the government is legitimate, and we also do it within Israel. Debating and discussing is legitimate. What concerns me is that we are already crossing the line from criticism to delegitimizing everything related to Israel, demonizing all Israelis. It seems to me that we have crossed that line to total demonization, and that scares me.
Do you think there are ministers in the government who are antisemitic?
When we say something like that, it is not an easy term to use. If we base it on the definition provided by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) on what antisemitism is, we are already violating that term, which is antisemitism.
So, do you believe that there are ministers in the government who are antisemitic?
Who have expressed rhetoric and acts of antisemitism, yes.
The US Department of State said that the measures proposed by President Sánchez "encourage terrorism." To what extent could this affect you?
Part of the measures were very general, and it seems too early to analyze the impact. I see that this impact also has consequences for Spain. When we see that the measures are taken only against us and not against the terrorist organization Hamas, I ask for more explanations. I need to understand what is being done against Hamas. The battle against terror unites us, unfortunately, all of us. Terrorism does not know boundaries, identities, nationalities.
Regarding the impact of the measures, could cooperation in intelligence be affected?
I cannot say at this point. I do not have enough information. And it is something, I imagine, that the government took into account again.
Ursula von der Leyen has called for the partial suspension of the Trade Agreement.
We know that this is one of the topics under discussion now. There are different voices within the European Union that understand the situation of Israel very well. And they understand that our battle, unfortunately, is the battle of different democratic countries, the fight against terrorism. I say this because other countries in the region also understand this, countries that are not in the European Union. What surprises me is when there are countries that only promote measures against Israel, it seems a bit hypocritical because we see that they do not do it with other countries. If supposedly the concern is human rights, then much more can be done against Hamas. If supposedly it is only about human rights, we do not see these actions being taken against other countries with whom the European Union has agreements and are not the best guardians of human rights.
Internationally, how do you think Israel's image is right now?
Internationally, I see that we are in a very tough situation, that Hamas is winning the fake news campaigns. How can we prevent this information and these images from spreading more and more? It is a challenge, not only for us but also one of the great challenges for all democracies. Because we see how disinformation is affecting different countries. It seems to me that Minister Albares also mentioned this, that it is one of the great battles we have, the great challenge.
In fact, on Wednesday, you posted a video on X talking about what you have done to combat antisemitism from the government after being accused of antisemitism.
I am glad that they are taking it seriously. Antisemitism is not something we should take lightly. It is something we have to fight with different institutions and with the Jewish communities throughout Spain.
You mentioned fake news. Help the reader understand what false news is being spread that is not true.
For example, different images coming out of Gaza. I am not denying that the situation in Gaza is tragic, the population is like hostages in the hands of Hamas, a cynical terrorist organization.
Why are journalists not allowed into Gaza?
Because they ask us to be responsible for the well-being and security of journalists. I do not know how to do it while Hamas is governing. I do not know how any of us can be sure while Hamas is in control. No matter what we do, if we let them in and something unfortunate happens, they will blame us. But in Israel, we cannot be sure because no one will be safe while Hamas is there.
But the last journalists who died in Gaza were due to an Israeli attack.
We have shown all the information, we saw that they were members of Hamas, they are on the lists, on Hamas's own computers, there are people listed, not as journalists, but as Hamas members. I put this aside, but if we are talking about fake news, there are many images of children that were published, and then we found out that it was illness.
Are there children dying of hunger in Gaza?
There are children who are at the mercy of Hamas, if the aid that enters Gaza does not reach them, then yes, they will be in a critical situation. But it is not only what we are seeing, the numbers in general come from Hamas.
The Israeli newspaper Haaretz published an investigation in August with verified images.
Yes, but like the New York Times also published photos and El País published photos that we later found out were not true. In Germany, they also published different photos that we later found out were not true. Time Magazine, one of the most prestigious in the world, published a photo that we later found out was falsified in the sense that when you zoom out, you see all the children waiting for food and aid, and they are posing for the photo.
So, there are no children starving.
No, the situation in Gaza is tragic and horrible. Let's talk about the culprit, let's talk about how we can stop this. And I would have liked to see demonstrations against Hamas. If people are truly pro-Palestine here, if there is such a strong feeling for the Palestinians, why don't they help the Palestinians against Hamas?
The political position of the European Union and Spain is the two-state solution with the removal of Hamas and the return of power to the Palestinian National Authority.
Okay, and what two states while Hamas is in power? Hamas wants to eliminate the State of Israel, the existence of Israelis and Jews. So, how do we reach that future reality if we do not confront Hamas now?
What do you think of the collateral victims of the attacks to kill Hamas terrorists?
Collateral victims is a legal term, part of international law. In Israel, we are acting under the rules and international law, the law of war. And it is very clear. So it is not collateral, what we are doing is under international law to protect ourselves from where the threat comes. We see how they are using civilian infrastructure, hospitals, mosques, schools, houses to launch attacks from those places. How they are hiding among their population. How is it that there is no condemnation of this? How is it that there is no condemnation when we see images of terrorists on food and aid trucks for Palestinians that Hamas is stealing? How is it that there was no condemnation like that?
But I ask you about the collateral victims. But they are not... the term collateral.
The victims.
There is a very easy way to end it all: Hamas. To understand that, you have to understand the system in which Hamas operates. When we say that the population of Gaza are human shields, it is because Hamas literally hides behind its population. We do everything possible not to affect them, to minimize all injuries: we give advance warnings, we ask them to move... And we are also criticized when we ask for this.
Speaking of this, there are a million citizens of Gaza City. Where are they going to go now that they are being asked to evacuate?
As long as Hamas is there, I don't know. They are hostages of Hamas. It's a good question. What is to be done with the population? When you have a government that says it, that it will use them as victims over and over again. It says that the entire population of Gaza, from their perspective, are martyrs, that they should die for the cause. How is it that people here do not take to the streets and say, let's free the Palestinians from Hamas? I don't know, we have to face it together.
This week, an operation was carried out to assassinate five Hamas terrorists in Qatar who were part of the negotiating team, is there no way in Gaza to minimize the damage further?
We do everything possible, from the beginning and during all our operations, battles, we do everything possible to minimize civilian casualties. When we talk about the five Hamas leaders, who were the masterminds and organizers of the massacres on October 7, of this whole horrible, tragic war, they knew, before starting all this, that this is the price they are willing to pay. They knew that Israel will defend itself. And unfortunately, they also knew that the world will quickly criticize Israel. Every day, since then, we have meetings between representatives of our army and UN organizations, to verify if there is enough water, enough electricity, enough food. But from the second or third day, we already hear voices saying there is not enough electricity, not enough food. And those voices are repeated.
How many Hamas terrorists are still alive?
I don't have a number. I don't know if we have, it's difficult, I will have to check.
And how many Palestinians have died since this war started? [According to the figures published daily from the strip, yesterday 16 citizens died, adding to the 64,656 from the day before].
We do not have a fixed number and that's what I say about the doubts of what Hamas says, from their Ministry of Health. They publish figures automatically and very quickly. Talking about that is already cynical, because every life is too much. And we know it. We have a saying in Hebrew that every life is an entire world. No one else has to die. No one had to die. And we can end it. We did not want this war. We do not want it now. We, I, am not speaking in general, I, Dana Ehrlich, as a diplomat, as an Israeli, as a human being, want all this to end. To end it, we have to release the hostages and ensure that this Hamas threat is not within our reach and that of the Palestinians.
Let's imagine that tomorrow all Hamas terrorists are eliminated, will the strip become part of a Palestinian territory? What are Israel's plans?
For now, we are still talking about how to eliminate the Hamas government. We, and I imagine whoever you speak to in Gaza as well, all want to live, it is the minimum we ask for and I imagine it is the minimum that every citizen asks of their government. So let's start by eliminating the Hamas threat and establishing some necessary stability. And then we can talk about coexistence, prosperity, the future of our region.
And would Israel be willing to participate in the reconstruction of Gaza?
We are already part of everything, we are already involved in the daily aid that enters Gaza. There are different future decisions of the cabinet that it is still too early to comment on, but it seems to me that over the years we have shown with different governments that we are willing to promote different projects for the well-being of the Palestinians because we all live in the same region. The future that I want for my region, for our region, is a future where we all live side by side.
Do you think that young people will understand the decisions your government made against Hamas that affected Gazan citizens?
We are talking about young Palestinians, young Israelis, we are all living this tragic reality, a Kafkaesque reality, because there is no other way to analyze it or see it. It's like a Kafka tale. Do you see how we are all falling into a trap that Hamas set for us? We can stop the indoctrination of hatred.